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His death was easier than he deserved.
They've both read "The Art of War".
‹‹ First ‹ Prev Comments(37) Random Next › Last ››

TGW-929

Chapter: Crime and Punishment
Characters: ambassador Palas, Angel, Carl, fintas, garion, janice, jason, red, tenshi
Location: around town, office
└ Tags: pre vote talk, umm..

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Discussion (37) ¬

  1. Scarsdale
    April 19, 2022, 03:00 | # | Reply

    I expected there would be a least one other in the group that didn’t
    like the death penalty but she makes a valid point that people like
    that are nonredeemable and would in time repeat the same thing
    these guys were caught red-handed no what-ifs or doubts.

    Palas has his work cut out for him the core has enjoyed too much
    luxury for too long to start making changes and the ones that do
    want to are afraid of the humans so yeah…

    • Ned Moore
      April 19, 2022, 18:40 | # | Reply

      Sometimes, I become what may be more than merely an “Eye for an Eye”
      type person.
      Having served in two (undeclared) wars with total Active and Reserve
      time of 32 years.
      and having worked in 3 prisons (2 minimum and 1 maximum facilities)
      in 2 states in varying capacities . . .
      I find regarding some crimes against persons (the convicts telling
      me what they did even when I said I did not want to know) – and for
      some, I could not walk away because I was doing Nursing and or ER
      procedures – not just passing medications –
      and the way they brag to one another regarding their crimes –
      I feel a sense in which, if I were in power,
      I would employ a type of reverse corollary of the Golden Rule:
      To wit:
      – “Whatsoever you have done unto your victim(s) –
      So also shall it be done likewise unto you”.

      At times, it does seem to me that it would be the only way to get
      Justice for the victims.
      (I know some people would be horrified to hear me say that –
      so I normally don’t say it . . . .
      but there are times when I damn well think it.)
      nm

      • Scarsdale
        April 19, 2022, 20:07 | # | Reply

        I grew up in the Gary, Indiana area I seen a lot of sick people and
        things the clowns that got my sister drunk and raped were the least
        cruel of the things I seen, the worst was a cute 16 y/o girl that
        liked as she put it “a sugar cookie rather than a dirty oreo from
        the gutter” so yeah i spent some time with her but a “brother” that
        was a PCP addict took offense and so in a fit of jealous rage
        stabbed her over a dozen times… Wasn’t brave enough to face me…
        I got the blame spent 2 days in jail before they figured out I
        wasn’t even in town that night. I have no patience for people that
        can’t deal with reality and their own mental sickness.

      • Sleel
        April 20, 2022, 04:53 | # | Reply

        I have zero problems with execution. Ppl can go on about how mistaken
        convictions were overturned with DNA. Well, that same DNA can prove
        they DID do it. And above that, it is far less reprehensible to
        mistakenly convict someone, then to let someone go who IS guilty,
        that then goes on to keep keeping on being a shitstain in the
        underwear of humanity. Especially when we are talking about
        what is here.

        And as for crimes against children, and terrorism, I am VERY retributive.
        AFAIC, ppl whose crimes are about inflicting maximum pain and misery on
        others should be executed in a way that visits the SAME misery and pain
        back upon them. My preferred method of execution for such filth would
        insure they suffered as their victims did, body and mind.
        First, you will need the kind of drugs used in hospitals to help stabilize
        patients going into shock, can’t have them dying to fast and escaping what’s
        coming. Then you flay them, starting from the toes and working your way up,
        finishing with the eyelids. Then you put on fluid filled goggles so their
        eyeballs don’t dry out, rendering them blind. Then you douse them in salted
        lemon juice, and seal that in with honey. THEN you stake them out over an
        ant hill that is surrounded by CCTV’s, strapping their head in place so they
        can’t look away from them. So that they have no choice but to watch
        themselves be eaten to death by the ants through their lidless eyes.

        I have no mercy or forgiveness for those who victimize children.

        And not much more for run of the mill murderers, either.

        • Scarsdale
          April 20, 2022, 10:42 | # | Reply

          I read somewhere that in the far east men found guilty
          of molesting children were tied naked to a post,
          honey poured on their genitals, and rats allowed to have dinner.
          This was many years ago but in my lifetime.

      • StripeCoat
        April 20, 2022, 05:08 | # | Reply

        I’m with Big Red on this one; in my opinion the only justification for the
        death penalty is to protect others when the state cannot do so. These people
        are sick and the way to permanently remove them from society is to cure them
        so the Ryder types need to be incarcerated and studied.
        There is also the possibility (unlikely in the Ryder case) of an erroneous
        conviction. Let’s take the incident below that Scarsdale refers to. Imagine
        this; he is on the way home just after visiting the girl when the attack
        takes place, stops for a burger, and a gust of wind blows the car door into
        his nose; not hard enough to cause a bruise or cut but it does cause him to
        sneeze. Not having a tissue or hankie handy he wipes his nose with his sleeve
        unaware it includes a trace of blood that stains his shirt cuff. He is also
        not aware he happens to have the same blood type as the girl. He stays a half
        hour. On arriving home the cops are waiting for him throw him in jail, and
        quickly find the blood stain. With circumstances pointing to him, a matching
        blood stain he doesn’t know where it came from, the diner staff not remembering
        him, and no security camera footage he is convicted of 1st degree murder.
        If a death penalty is then imposed and carried out it is too late to say “sorry,
        you didn’t deserve that” when someone asks “Hey, did you check if the DNA of the
        bloodstain matches the DNA of the girl?

        • rob stanley
          April 20, 2022, 09:02 | # | Reply

          i get your point,, but DNA don’t work that way.!
          matching DNA type would mean they were twins..
          and in this case “blood type” would mean nothing.
          now change the scene, SHE bumped her nose an
          blead on him (not noticed),, same out come..

          • StripeCoat
            April 20, 2022, 11:24 | # | Reply

            Do you mean that two DNA samples from one person
            do not necessarily give the same result?
            (the hypothetical situation is based on the girl’s sample and the
            sleeve sample NOT matching proves the sleeve sample was not from the
            girl).
            Or that samples from two different individuals can give the same
            result? (which would negate the very basics of genetic evidence).
            These days a complete genome of a human can be done in a couple
            of hours and even identical twins do not have an identical genome.
            Different story if they only do a partial test for certain
            markers though.
            (Then the argument becomes statistical based on the probability that
            X matches implies Y probability the samples came from the one person.)

            • rob stanley
              April 20, 2022, 13:35 | # | Reply

              no, by your first statement .. his blood on him. but they have the same
              blood type,,. what i was saying is,, big deal, blood is blood.. they don’t
              test for type.. they test for DNA.
              so.. it would have to be her blood (by accident) for them to go further..

              • StripeCoat
                April 20, 2022, 20:36 | # | Reply

                Point and match to you

        • rob stanley
          April 20, 2022, 09:20 | # | Reply

          since 1983, there are over 180 false death penalty convictions..
          but there are more than 50 known active serial killers (3 or more
          victims per.) that was released on a technicality..
          also they did the studies (serial an pedo’s),. an except in very rare
          cases, there is no cure for them,. they will keep doing what they do
          untill death.. and in most cases will pass it off to offspring..

          • Scarsdale
            April 20, 2022, 11:09 | # | Reply

            That is exactly my point too often these types get away to commit their crimes over and over
            due to a simple mistake by the police and in one case I know of a paperwork snafu that released
            one 20 years early.
            In 1978 there was no DNA testing it was strictly hard evidence and police opinions I owned no
            knife I had no bloodstained clothes my car was clean luckily my sensi had heard
            about it and confirmed I was with him and 4 others training that night in another town.
            Cops didn’t let me call anyone they just wanted an easy collar they even told me she was alive
            and if I told them why I did it they’d let me see her.
            I’m not talking about a single incident I’m talking about serial offenders that are driven to commit
            their crimes against people with what ever perversions they have with no remorse or fear.

            • rob stanley
              April 20, 2022, 14:03 | # | Reply

              by all rights.. your case right there.. was a thrown out snafu..
              i agree.. three strike rule.. if they have proven 1 or 2 didn’t
              work.. then they have proven that they don’t need to be in
              society..

          • StripeCoat
            April 20, 2022, 11:33 | # | Reply

            That is why repeat offenders should be permanently
            incarcerated and studied; and if their financial
            position allows it, pay the cost of doing so.

            • rob stanley
              April 20, 2022, 13:42 | # | Reply

              study.? in the rare cases yes.. the others have been studied..
              in the early 1900’s there were over 400 cases of “rich” put in
              mental ward so the ‘state’ could get their money…

        • Scarsdale
          April 20, 2022, 10:51 | # | Reply

          She had bled out or I wouldn’t of had a few drops I would of been
          covered and yes DNA would of settled it and saved me 48 hours of
          accusations, threats, and outright lies. Never mind I liked this
          girl and might of even married her down the road. The only thing
          I was guilty of is being the wrong color and being a trained
          martial artist.

        • herekittykitty
          April 20, 2022, 23:47 | # | Reply

          Yes the whole point of capital punishment is to protect the public.
          It is also essential to do real investigation
          so that horrible mistakes are not made.

  2. iain Na Hearadh
    April 19, 2022, 06:19 | # | Reply

    The obvious problem here for the Catians is they are an untried and
    risky proposition.
    Short of suddenly opening up the equivalent of the East India spice
    trade, or similar high value product or service, the hard slog is
    usually the only way to go to get runs on the board.

    Although, in their favor they have better vessels, better crews,
    cheaper transport costs and an alliance backed by the Empire. As
    opposed to simply being a one planet wonder late to the space-
    faring party.

    Also, inevitably, they will likely come into direct conflict with
    other more dubious and morally challenged space-faring races.
    Overcoming those conflicts with the aid of Empire technology and
    Troops would be one way of creating a solid reputation.

    However, as that all may be, we can but wait and see.

    • Bill Mullins
      April 19, 2022, 08:51 | # | Reply

      “in their favor they have better vessels, better crews, cheaper
      transport costs and an alliance backed by the Empire”
      Even more important (IMnsHO) is that the Catians and Terrans are
      honorable. While they are undoubtedly out to make a profit, being
      honorable they will not do so at their customer’s expense. All the
      fringe-worlders have known is being cheated, exploited and gouged
      by core world traders. I figure that after a year of fair dealing
      on the part of the Cats most fringe worlds will come to support
      Catia. I guess time (and PC) will tell.

    • Dreamfox
      April 19, 2022, 09:05 | # | Reply

      Consider, they are talking out in the open where everyone with the
      cheapest microphone can listen in.
      Why should they be surprised that the Dogishuans accepted an invitation
      to the Catia’s Pride? Their King joined the Empire and has one or more
      ships on the way to tell his people which occupy other planets as
      mercenaries that they will soon be cut off and that they will extract
      them if they can. It’s safe to assume that they had documents to prove
      this to the Dogishuan ambassador.
      This is a play. They are lulling the opposition into a false sense of
      security.
      “We are Fringe Bumpkins and have no idea how to play this game. We have
      a lot of resources with a little population and are behind in technology.”
      The Core Worlds think they are playing chess, but in truth it’s Stratego.

      • rob stanley
        April 19, 2022, 10:13 | # | Reply

        surprised,, it is part of the ruse,,.. the core don’t
        know, an they want to keep it that way.!!!

      • Scarsdale
        April 19, 2022, 19:48 | # | Reply

        Ah yes I remember Stratego very good analogy in both games you set
        up your opponent to walk into a trap but chess is much easier to
        read the traps but Stratego you just don’t know until you until
        you attack.
        The Empire/Catians are playing the long game but keeping the options
        open just in case the core is like an old bear it just wants to be
        left alone while it’s snacking on a camper giving you time to lock on
        target with a 30-06 rifle.

      • StripeCoat
        April 20, 2022, 06:20 | # | Reply

        They’re foxing about their real intent.
        And it’s a necessary ploy to keep as many as possible (even those to
        support them) in the dark about their contact with the Dogishuans.

    • Scarsdale
      April 19, 2022, 14:34 | # | Reply

      A better take on the Catians is “We didn’t want to be made and we
      didn’t ask to be thrust into our position we are only trying to be
      free and make our way we only ask to be a member and gain the
      respect of our peers.”
      Shining the spotlight directly on the core humans and
      distracting them from what is really going on.

  3. Paul
    April 19, 2022, 20:21 | # | Reply

    I am wondering what Janice will make of this. I believe she is good
    for what ratings she can get and will she actually report as facts
    or with her slant? I know the records are sealed,
    but they are open for this ‘jury’.

    • Scarsdale
      April 20, 2022, 11:16 | # | Reply

      She’s a liberal with an agenda and a need for ratings you KNOW she’ll spin it
      to make the king and the empress look bad.

  4. StripeCoat
    April 20, 2022, 08:51 | # | Reply

    Ambassador Palas has said they need the human seat before the core
    worlds start taking action against them.
    Of coarse that was before the suggestion they try for a seat in their
    own right but I doubt if this can be the real position as the terrains
    are definitely human. And Earth, not Catia, is the home world of the
    Wolf Empire.
    Another question is are there any other human worlds in the core? (as
    distinct from there being humans on any core world) If no maybe they
    expect the core worlds to accuse them of attacking Lamnia with the
    Cats responding it was Lamnia that first attacked the Terrains; and
    since Lamnia lost the Terrains had the right to claim the human seat
    on council. Should be quite shock to discover the Terrains occupy
    the Dragon ‘owned’ system and wonder just how much help the dragons
    are giving them. Which should make them very wary of attacking the
    Sol system even after the real war breaks out.

  5. Scarsdale
    April 20, 2022, 11:26 | # | Reply

    If the humans no longer had their seat any move by them against the Catians would
    bring the council’s forces against them that is all he’s saying it would give them a huge
    advantage in a war which the core humans currently have. They can’t beat the Catian’s
    tech but numbers can make up the difference. Plus even if they won there would be lingering
    resentment of the Catians by the other races. They are playing the wronged victims not
    conquering hero’s to the galaxy.

  6. Jochi
    April 20, 2022, 17:30 | # | Reply

    It occurs to me that the Frog’s (Ka Eru?) objection to giving the Cats
    a new seat is likely the one being fed to the Outer Worlds by the Core
    Worlds. It may be significant how it lines up with Mitchell’s strategy
    he proposed to Pallas. And that feeds my feeling that Mitchell is in
    fact a tool of the Core worlds, not serving Lamia any more, much less
    the human species. It reminds me of the days between the formation of
    the UN and the dissolution of the Soviet Union when Belarus and Ukraine
    were members of the general assembly in their own right, the two
    republics arguably most like the “Great” Russians or “True” Russians,
    called in fact “White” Russians and “Black” Russians. While the other
    republics, less ethnically connected, had no such representation, much
    less countries in the “Russian Federation” like Chechnya and Tuva that
    are still not independent.
    This situation is going to get far more complicated, both because it
    is clear that NO ONE can speak for all humans. (Couldn’t before the
    Empire came on the scene, the Southern Worlds were clearly
    disenfranchised on this level.) And by the fact that the Empire now
    numbers several species that DO have their own seats. There is no
    solution I can see that everyone is going to see as fair, or in their
    own self interest. I begin to think the Empire is right and it will
    take a war to get to a new status quo. As to the debate above, I have
    said that there are two words I’d like to have stricken from the
    Constitution. In the prohibition of “cruel and unusual” punishments,
    I’m all for being civilized, but there are crimes that really deserve
    unusual, nay, unique and creative punishments.

    • Scarsdale
      April 20, 2022, 19:14 | # | Reply

      Amen for that! That sick s.o.b. should of been stripped naked covered
      in paper cuts and hung upside down in a cave filled with vampire bats
      for a week… just my feelings on the matter… On a good note I know
      he didn’t last a year in prison wasn’t as satisfying but I took it.

      Until medical science can understand the brain well enough to “fix”
      the mentally ill there isn’t much that can be done and they are a
      danger to themselves and others you can’t say “Oh I understand you
      can’t help it” pat them on the head and forgive it. A sociopath just
      lacks basic human understanding they don’t feel anything so they do
      things that let them feel something and it never ends well or is
      enough for them.

  7. Curtis
    April 20, 2022, 19:06 | # | Reply

    Everybody says they want justice. However, what they
    usually really want is either revenge or mercy.
    The difference being dependent on if they are the
    victim or perpetrator.

    • herekittykitty
      April 21, 2022, 00:10 | # | Reply

      People don’t know what they want.
      They want to be comfortable in my opinion.

      • rob stanley
        April 21, 2022, 17:08 | # | Reply

        sheeple,, that type of ‘people’ i call sheeple..
        they do know what they want.. 1) food/water,
        2) shelter/protection, and 3) a reason,. a
        reason to live/be..
        over half (closer to 90%) of the worlds
        population are like that,. pick a country,
        completely change the government
        (kingdom to totalitarian), but not change
        the “peoples” life at all,, they would care less..

        • herekittykitty
          April 22, 2022, 01:40 | # | Reply

          There is a reason the Bible refers to people as sheep.
          Most people need a shepherd and seldom get a good one.
          Its a sad old situation.
          Some human beings were born to shepherd.

    • Scarsdale
      April 21, 2022, 02:23 | # | Reply

      No we want to be safe and our loved ones to be safe it’s that simple.
      Yes I wanted revenge on many levels no one has ever bothered to say
      that to me before “thanks” for that. Justice and revenge aren’t that
      different our entire legal system is based on revenge if you think
      about it. I can always tell when someone has never truly dealt with
      situations like that. My sister didn’t have mercy, those girls
      didn’t have mercy, why should the sick bastards that did it have any?

      • Curtis
        April 21, 2022, 15:26 | # | Reply

        It’s an observation(food for thought), not an accusation.
        Yes, when my sister was a passenger in the front seat of a car
        hit head on by a drunk driver I felt a desire for revenge.
        She was in her last year of her RN degree work and
        because of the head injury she had to repeat the entire year.
        We frequently do not give judges the sympathy they deserve.
        The scales Lady Justice holds, and by extension the judge,
        only has two pans. However, in reality the judge must balance
        many things ; the law, the evidence, punishment, revenge,
        the good of society, and yes mercy.

        • rob stanley
          April 21, 2022, 17:15 | # | Reply

          same but different.! same = both, people were hurt, an wanted justice..
          different = one did not intentionally go out to do bodily harm,. like these.

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