My guess is that the two sort of grew together with Texas absorbing New Mexico (El Paso is more than half way across) and part of Arizona. Also wouldn’t be surprised if Texas hadn’t absorbed pretty much all the territory originally freed from Mexico.
I forget. Has the Catman ever given us a hint of where in our world the Empire might be located roughly?
I don’t think so? But my thinking was that is was more or less the south-eastern Appalachians. So Georgia, Tennessee, WV / V…… Kentucky? Catman, gots a Map anywhere?
we talked about it.. (location) and talked about a map.. but never really finished…
tho those pages went the way of the dodo, when the revamp hit.. 🙂
I’m pretty sure this is the first hint in canon. Other than there doesn’t seem to be a lot of snow, and the area has oil wells and strip mines. We mostly know places it’s NOT in, like DC, NYC and Toronto. And now that Texas lies at least partially between it and California (although we don’t yet know how closely those names compare to current geography. The people using them, or at least the core that started each nation, may have migrated to their current locations.) I have the impression that has been intentional, and I can see the value in keeping the story flexible and giving readers more leeway to identify with the region.
The Problem here is that this is post civilization, so no GRID Power pretty much everywhere, unless you were prepared at a local scale. Weak nations and states would have entirely collapsed, and that would include large cities.
The other issue is mass die off, as few people in this modern age have survival or actual farming skills.
As far as farming goes, that would be mostly agricultural, and based on a nearby reliable (natural) water source.
As far as the civilization rebuild, if and where it happens, think (warring) Feudal late Roman empire to European Middle Ages at best, with scattered and low grade technology, except again, where you were prepared.
However, as per the Canon to date, that won’t support large scale populations.
Also, as per Canon, Raiders, Warlords and general misery and poverty is the world wide new normal, with few exceptions.
So I would probably suggest that the PDRC management, such as it is, would have migrated North.
The major cities, without food, water and sewage, would have collapsed.
Then Roaming bands of desperate, starving and lawless people would become a permanent and serious problem, with a few weeks.
To top that off, then add semi organized entitled Liberal Bandits, and Anti fa types without a pay check and none of the above, in a totally collapsed Venezuela equivalent.
There is no more Welfare, so many with half a brain would have migrated back South, where natural food and water sources were more abundant.
Although surviving that would be horrendous, as slavery would be back on the agenda, given that large scale crime in the South would have otherwise collapsed.
Mexico City, the nearest Large southern semi Rural location, would highly likely be under some sort of self appointed “Military” War lord control by former Military officers. The Welcome mat would not be out.
As far as the PDRC exerting and projecting influence, the coastal corridor between Portland and Fresno would have to be their stronghold.
The rest of their “territory” they would project and claim as self entitled raiders and land pirates.
Think Feudal Warlords with Roman style Forts located at major geographical features, such as Rivers, Roads and local Hill features, staffed by slaves and mercenaries, managed by an “elite” core.
As for the senior management of such “Peoples Democratic Republics”, they are likely also self appointed Royals, in all but name only.
The period between the Collapse of Ancient Rome and the rise of the Renaissance period was called the Dark ages, for a reason.
You’ve done a lot of research, and have a lot of knowledge, so please spell it out for me.
What would the situation in the PDRC be, say, five years after The Fall?
Same for the Republic of Texas?
How far west and north would the NoT have expanded, and where would they have come into conflict with the PDRC?
What would they offer the Empire in trade besides beef and oil? I’m thinking maybe consumer electronics and other raw materials such as copper.
Thanks.
me personally .. i was thinking , that since the virus came from Cali that a large group WAS prepared , an is a reason the PDRC is a problem..
..you’re thinking why cali.? cuz when i was driving OTR, there was NO major export, just lots of imports… and,, no major support structure,. IE: all they have is hollyweird an silicon valley..
so, in order to survive an form the “PDRC” some one had to know an BE prepared…
oh , virus = silicon valley, equals way to many egghead hackers ,, with a grievance to prove..
NOW, my disclaimer.!: this is my thinking,, not PC’s .!! i don’t have insight to what he is doing…
Partly depends on which Texas we’re talking about. Captain Smith looks like he’s from West Texas. might be North. Gonna be a lot of PDRC symps in Houston and Austin, if they’ve lived this long. North and West Texas have wheat and other big field crops, NoT will have more so if it’s expanded into Oklahoma and Kansas. New Mexico and Colorado are becoming increasingly “progressive” (hack, spit, hate the modern misuse of that word) too, paradoxically NoT would find more sympathizers in Arizona and Utah, which are closer to the PDRC.
I’m an Ex. Regimental NCO, trained in Counter Insurgency and TWAWKI recovery, among other things.
My previous comments are straight out of basic war-gaming scenarios.
The TWAWKI aspect comes about because of natural or other disasters, including Carrington and Meteor events, world wide plagues, and rogue political issues, such as the current issues, which have yet to fully play out.
However, as that may be, the first and biggest problem in your Canon is rogues and deserters, then rogue Nations and States.
I notice that while you have touched on this, it isn’t a major theme, however, given the overall lack of current ‘media’ resources, a lot would be going on that nobody would know about. So there’s that.
The first part, from a military and political perspective, is identification and recognition of already politically, financially and administratively “unbalanced” Nations and States, who also have resource issues, or will have, if they lose GRID power.
Although not many know it, Venezuela is one such nation now, where the Power GRID is basically non functional. What little Power there is, is all local and sporadic.
A great many countries suffer this problem, where any outage of any magnitude would render them unlivable and lawless within three months. Then the S.W.H.T.F., literally.
Again, instant Feudal nation states, but at much lesser and more violent level. Also lots of dead, dying and disease.
I also notice that you are beginning to develop an intelligence service, one that sooner or later, the “Crown” would need to deploy into the “field” to identify the “unknown” and emerging threats.
The first example here in your Canon was your rogue Chinese warlords. However, may more would be looking to take advantage, or in the case of the PDRC, assume entitlement not dissimilar to Feudal Lords, Princes and despots.
As for trading, that only comes about when you have something to trade. This means you need a stable Government and a mercantile economy.
Unfortunately, as history has shown, taking what your think your entitled to, via raiding parties, is cheaper than trading.
The most recent historical example of this was Great Britain using “Privateers” (Licensed Pirates) (from 1600 to 1800) to raid and plunder other nations vessels and sea towns, then pay the “Crown” a fee for maintaining their “Licensed” status.
However, in the case of the PDRC, if you don’t see a need for this arm’s length fiction, then a hundred well armed men on horseback can cover quite a bit of ground. Anything better than that is a bonus.
More so if they have a small caravan of another hundred men following, who can resupply them in the field and run a shuttle service to return the plunder. Again, anything better than that is a bonus.
In such a scenario, livestock tops the list, then cloth, metals and any useful technology they can get their hands on.
Then there is the slavery thing. While slave labor has it’s problems, it can be a cheap solution to a lack of man power, or a lack of desire to be that man power.
The issue is managing compliant slaves. Women and children traditionally fit this description.
As for California being full of geeks, yes, but then, so is the current Militant crowd.
Although take away their ability to eat and survive, and give them Guns and Horses, and they are more than a match for a soft targets.
That is the basis of your inept, but growing band of State backed Insurgents. After a few years, they will learn, become more organized, and present a serious threat.
The first step would be to take out their forward resupply forts, then use light horse infantry, using guerrilla warfare and snipers to discourage them projecting beyond their hard borders.
However, in this instance, the TGW “Crown” has vehicle based, mobile light infantry and powerful air cover, which would be used to smash all of their forward support infrastructure, over time, and force them back into a more feudal environment, breaking up their cohesion, and reducing their ability to control much more than large fortified towns.
Also arming and training various friendly factions is a good first step to returning freedom to the oppressed surfs of the PDRC. Think of the SWISS requirement to being basically trained militia.
As for the first strategy against the PDRC, think Gulf War one.
The alternative would be land based warfare, and occupation. Think Gulf War Two.
That worked for Ancient Rome and their legions, however, they used and went through, a lot of mercenaries. The problem, however, is like Afghanistan, you can get stuck there, forever.
Without stating the obvious, that’s also expensive and requires you basically loot your “protectorate” to repay your debts and finance further incursions.
This would be the big difference between a Conservative “work ethic” Nation State, who expanded because they tried to help out their neighbors, and then wound up running the place, in the form of a “Texas Federal” Government, while maintaining a “local” government, as such, of that region.
For those former States and towns that didn’t agree with the Texas offer, no problem, the “Texas Federal” Government would simply withdraw. United we stand, and all of that.
This as opposed to a one party Nation State full of entitled thieves and rogues, who would view theft, slavery and forced appropriation as the easiest course of action.
Yeah, those danged Californians can be a real pain… (This coming from someone born there!)
And why, oh why do I think tall and chubby is about to become a pile of big and chunky???
I am guessing the PDRC have absorbed states between CA and TX?
My guess is that the two sort of grew together with Texas absorbing New Mexico (El Paso is more than half way across) and part of Arizona. Also wouldn’t be surprised if Texas hadn’t absorbed pretty much all the territory originally freed from Mexico.
I forget. Has the Catman ever given us a hint of where in our world the Empire might be located roughly?
I don’t think so? But my thinking was that is was more or less the south-eastern Appalachians. So Georgia, Tennessee, WV / V…… Kentucky? Catman, gots a Map anywhere?
we talked about it.. (location) and talked about a map.. but never really finished…
tho those pages went the way of the dodo, when the revamp hit.. 🙂
I’m pretty sure this is the first hint in canon. Other than there doesn’t seem to be a lot of snow, and the area has oil wells and strip mines. We mostly know places it’s NOT in, like DC, NYC and Toronto. And now that Texas lies at least partially between it and California (although we don’t yet know how closely those names compare to current geography. The people using them, or at least the core that started each nation, may have migrated to their current locations.) I have the impression that has been intentional, and I can see the value in keeping the story flexible and giving readers more leeway to identify with the region.
Jochi, Bill
The Problem here is that this is post civilization, so no GRID Power pretty much everywhere, unless you were prepared at a local scale. Weak nations and states would have entirely collapsed, and that would include large cities.
The other issue is mass die off, as few people in this modern age have survival or actual farming skills.
As far as farming goes, that would be mostly agricultural, and based on a nearby reliable (natural) water source.
As far as the civilization rebuild, if and where it happens, think (warring) Feudal late Roman empire to European Middle Ages at best, with scattered and low grade technology, except again, where you were prepared.
However, as per the Canon to date, that won’t support large scale populations.
Also, as per Canon, Raiders, Warlords and general misery and poverty is the world wide new normal, with few exceptions.
So I would probably suggest that the PDRC management, such as it is, would have migrated North.
The major cities, without food, water and sewage, would have collapsed.
Then Roaming bands of desperate, starving and lawless people would become a permanent and serious problem, with a few weeks.
To top that off, then add semi organized entitled Liberal Bandits, and Anti fa types without a pay check and none of the above, in a totally collapsed Venezuela equivalent.
There is no more Welfare, so many with half a brain would have migrated back South, where natural food and water sources were more abundant.
Although surviving that would be horrendous, as slavery would be back on the agenda, given that large scale crime in the South would have otherwise collapsed.
Mexico City, the nearest Large southern semi Rural location, would highly likely be under some sort of self appointed “Military” War lord control by former Military officers. The Welcome mat would not be out.
As far as the PDRC exerting and projecting influence, the coastal corridor between Portland and Fresno would have to be their stronghold.
The rest of their “territory” they would project and claim as self entitled raiders and land pirates.
Think Feudal Warlords with Roman style Forts located at major geographical features, such as Rivers, Roads and local Hill features, staffed by slaves and mercenaries, managed by an “elite” core.
As for the senior management of such “Peoples Democratic Republics”, they are likely also self appointed Royals, in all but name only.
The period between the Collapse of Ancient Rome and the rise of the Renaissance period was called the Dark ages, for a reason.
You’ve done a lot of research, and have a lot of knowledge, so please spell it out for me.
What would the situation in the PDRC be, say, five years after The Fall?
Same for the Republic of Texas?
How far west and north would the NoT have expanded, and where would they have come into conflict with the PDRC?
What would they offer the Empire in trade besides beef and oil? I’m thinking maybe consumer electronics and other raw materials such as copper.
Thanks.
me personally .. i was thinking , that since the virus came from Cali that a large group WAS prepared , an is a reason the PDRC is a problem..
..you’re thinking why cali.? cuz when i was driving OTR, there was NO major export, just lots of imports… and,, no major support structure,. IE: all they have is hollyweird an silicon valley..
so, in order to survive an form the “PDRC” some one had to know an BE prepared…
oh , virus = silicon valley, equals way to many egghead hackers ,, with a grievance to prove..
NOW, my disclaimer.!: this is my thinking,, not PC’s .!! i don’t have insight to what he is doing…
Partly depends on which Texas we’re talking about. Captain Smith looks like he’s from West Texas. might be North. Gonna be a lot of PDRC symps in Houston and Austin, if they’ve lived this long. North and West Texas have wheat and other big field crops, NoT will have more so if it’s expanded into Oklahoma and Kansas. New Mexico and Colorado are becoming increasingly “progressive” (hack, spit, hate the modern misuse of that word) too, paradoxically NoT would find more sympathizers in Arizona and Utah, which are closer to the PDRC.
PeterCat,
I’m an Ex. Regimental NCO, trained in Counter Insurgency and TWAWKI recovery, among other things.
My previous comments are straight out of basic war-gaming scenarios.
The TWAWKI aspect comes about because of natural or other disasters, including Carrington and Meteor events, world wide plagues, and rogue political issues, such as the current issues, which have yet to fully play out.
However, as that may be, the first and biggest problem in your Canon is rogues and deserters, then rogue Nations and States.
I notice that while you have touched on this, it isn’t a major theme, however, given the overall lack of current ‘media’ resources, a lot would be going on that nobody would know about. So there’s that.
The first part, from a military and political perspective, is identification and recognition of already politically, financially and administratively “unbalanced” Nations and States, who also have resource issues, or will have, if they lose GRID power.
Although not many know it, Venezuela is one such nation now, where the Power GRID is basically non functional. What little Power there is, is all local and sporadic.
A great many countries suffer this problem, where any outage of any magnitude would render them unlivable and lawless within three months. Then the S.W.H.T.F., literally.
Again, instant Feudal nation states, but at much lesser and more violent level. Also lots of dead, dying and disease.
I also notice that you are beginning to develop an intelligence service, one that sooner or later, the “Crown” would need to deploy into the “field” to identify the “unknown” and emerging threats.
The first example here in your Canon was your rogue Chinese warlords. However, may more would be looking to take advantage, or in the case of the PDRC, assume entitlement not dissimilar to Feudal Lords, Princes and despots.
As for trading, that only comes about when you have something to trade. This means you need a stable Government and a mercantile economy.
Unfortunately, as history has shown, taking what your think your entitled to, via raiding parties, is cheaper than trading.
The most recent historical example of this was Great Britain using “Privateers” (Licensed Pirates) (from 1600 to 1800) to raid and plunder other nations vessels and sea towns, then pay the “Crown” a fee for maintaining their “Licensed” status.
However, in the case of the PDRC, if you don’t see a need for this arm’s length fiction, then a hundred well armed men on horseback can cover quite a bit of ground. Anything better than that is a bonus.
More so if they have a small caravan of another hundred men following, who can resupply them in the field and run a shuttle service to return the plunder. Again, anything better than that is a bonus.
In such a scenario, livestock tops the list, then cloth, metals and any useful technology they can get their hands on.
Then there is the slavery thing. While slave labor has it’s problems, it can be a cheap solution to a lack of man power, or a lack of desire to be that man power.
The issue is managing compliant slaves. Women and children traditionally fit this description.
As for California being full of geeks, yes, but then, so is the current Militant crowd.
Although take away their ability to eat and survive, and give them Guns and Horses, and they are more than a match for a soft targets.
That is the basis of your inept, but growing band of State backed Insurgents. After a few years, they will learn, become more organized, and present a serious threat.
The first step would be to take out their forward resupply forts, then use light horse infantry, using guerrilla warfare and snipers to discourage them projecting beyond their hard borders.
However, in this instance, the TGW “Crown” has vehicle based, mobile light infantry and powerful air cover, which would be used to smash all of their forward support infrastructure, over time, and force them back into a more feudal environment, breaking up their cohesion, and reducing their ability to control much more than large fortified towns.
Also arming and training various friendly factions is a good first step to returning freedom to the oppressed surfs of the PDRC. Think of the SWISS requirement to being basically trained militia.
As for the first strategy against the PDRC, think Gulf War one.
The alternative would be land based warfare, and occupation. Think Gulf War Two.
That worked for Ancient Rome and their legions, however, they used and went through, a lot of mercenaries. The problem, however, is like Afghanistan, you can get stuck there, forever.
Without stating the obvious, that’s also expensive and requires you basically loot your “protectorate” to repay your debts and finance further incursions.
This would be the big difference between a Conservative “work ethic” Nation State, who expanded because they tried to help out their neighbors, and then wound up running the place, in the form of a “Texas Federal” Government, while maintaining a “local” government, as such, of that region.
For those former States and towns that didn’t agree with the Texas offer, no problem, the “Texas Federal” Government would simply withdraw. United we stand, and all of that.
This as opposed to a one party Nation State full of entitled thieves and rogues, who would view theft, slavery and forced appropriation as the easiest course of action.