True. The data transmission rate is also very slow, sort of like ULF radio.
You were commo, Bill. Give me a lesson on how ULF communication works, will you?
If they have a highly secure but very slow communications channel,
they might consider combining it with a less secure channel in roughly
the following way:
Scramble the data to be transmitted by using quick and randomly changing
ciphers and transfer only the keys for deciphering over the highly secured
low bandwidth channel.
The actual data is transferred over the open medium, but useless without the
keys.
Of course there’s the risk that your encryption isn’t as good as you think, or that
the eavesdroppers could record the open transfer and crack it over the next few
weeks or decades (on the other hand: the later might not be an issue since the
data could be outdated by the time it’s eventually cracked).
Of course this would not work, anyway if you’re trying to hide the fact that your
communicating at all.
Basically, the information sent over a given carrier wave can be no more than one half of the frequency
of the carrier wave itself with the actual info itself being less than half that. The ULF band would fall
between 300 – 3,000 hertz (cycles per second) so for reliable comm you could have a total usable channel
bandwidth (how wide the information channel would need to be) only 150 hertz and in practice the signal
could be no more than 75 htz. For digital data that would only be a few bits per second thus only a
couple of characters per second.
But that would be predicated on using a carrier wave. I envision a grav based comm system as
working similar to the old fashioned sound powered paper cup (or tin can) and string “telephone”
game. The sound is carried down the taught string. No need to modulate a carrier wave when you
can just “jiggle the string”. If you focused the grav into a tight beam it would be totally secure
similar to a tightly focused laser beam. No need for encryption (which can always be broken) if the
channel itself is immune to eavesdropping. Actually, I don’t see why you don’t just use a tight
beam laser for your comm. It would be easier. But if you did communicate using a carrier in the
ULF band comm would be ungodly slow compared to simply modulating the grav beam directly.
Beautiful. That’s exactly what I wanted to know.
So… The most likely used words and phrases for a specific mission would
be coded as numbers, say, from 27-99? With necessary words spelled out
in numbers 1-26?
If you only need a few bits of information (6 in your example) and have more than a
fraction of a second to transmit them, you could use virtually anything to do it.
Even transmitting more code via turning off and on the engines
You might not even feel the need to bother with encryption or using stealth
channels.
For example, the most likely message for her to send would probably something
a long the line “we’re in position and ready”. You could encode that into just one
short “pring” (like the letter E in morse code).
funny you should say that…
back in 2016 (Russia) they figured out a way to send data (in binary)
from source, to 2 different satellites, an back to source.. using a
“gravity induced communication wave” AND they extrapolate that with
enough power,, they could send it at the speed of light…
which would be a bit faster than carrier wave…
There’s several different definitions of “fast” you could apply here.
When we usually talk about something traveling fast it’s in terms of actual speed.
As in m/s or mph.
Information transfer has to consider bandwidth (measured for example in kBit/s or
GBit/s), which is the amount of data you can put through the medium over a given
amount of time.
And then there’s latency (or somewhat equivalent round-trip-time) – how long does
the signal take from sender to receiver (or maybe even back again).
When you have massive amounts of data you might still find that the all-in-all fastest way
to transfer them is to store them on physical media and then send these via conventional
transportation. (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sneakernet)
The last method is both slow in terms of speed of the physical medium and (consequentially)
latency – but could still be the fasted way in terms of bandwidth.
I can’t find an article about the “gravity induced communication wave” right now, but by the sound
of it, it should be fast in terms traveling speed, probably not quite that fast in terms of latency (since
changing gravity should imply moving around massive objects of some kind? and detection probably
takes more processing time then using a simple photocell) and I’m pretty sure it will be slow in terms
of bandwidth (again because of the implied movement of massive objects):
In the setting of this site the bandwidth question boils down to:
“How fast can you change (aka modulate) the pull of your grav guns/engines and how good are the
detectors you use in picking up these changes?”
For example: maybe a common household scales would be usable as a detector, but I don’t think it
would be able give you more than a few Bit/s (or even less. I think measuring cycle is some 2-5s
between measuring?)
Another thing about using ULF (or the even lower SLF 30 – 300 hz) is that the electromagnetic radiation
has no sky wave. It propagates through the earth. That’s why it is used by armed forces for emergency
communication. Nuclear weapons detonating in the atmosphere would generate a huge amount of
persistent electromagnetic noise. ULF and below would barely affected. Plus extreme longwave radiation
propagates through sea water very well. The problem is that practical transmitters require ungodly long
antennas (receivers don’t need much antenna for a strong enough signal). The Looking Glass emergency
airborne command post had a SLF transmitter with an antenna FIVE MILES LONG! They would literally
reel out a 5 mile (8 kilometer) long antenna that would hang out the ass end of the aircraft. If there was a
problem with the equipment to reel it back in there was a guillotine type mechanism to separate the
antenna from the aircraft. And, yes, that mechanism did fail a time or two (it was maintained by G.I.s after all).
Supposedly, landing the aircraft with miles of wire hanging out its ass was a might tricky. But SLF was just
about the only way to contact a submarine cruising deep. The actual message would just be a couple of
characters that decoded to a pre-arranged instruction like go to perescope depth for a satcom message. I
never worked on that equipment but guys in my Air Force Specialty did. It was supposedly some
“interesting” equipment.
You all remember the blue-on-blue Catian, Tabitha, right? Well, she was
based on a real-life young lady, like Jochi is. And she dyed her hair blue.
She worked at a store that I frequent, but she disappeared. No one there
would tell me anything, I guess I was giving off creepy old man vibes
or something.
Gave me the sads.
Anyway, the last time I was there, the store manager told me that she’d quit
when she graduated from High School and is now going to college. Good for her!
She really is an admirable young lady. And yes, she’s tall.
Yes I do she bonded with spirit when Kathy was married.
I hope we see her again sometime I liked her character.
I just talk like a kind knowing dad to the younger set, I
had a job at a Wal-mart as a greeter. Most of them liked
me, especially the gals at check-out in the garden center.
I made dad jokes and told stories what I did before coming
there it was fun and fairly easy money. Only bad thing was
this one young man seemed to think I was horning in on
his love-life, even though he was a “playah” and the girls
knew it. I Just said “look, I’m 50+, happily married, that
makes me safe. Deal with it!” a-hole keyed my car later
that day…
I vaguely remember that show when it was broadcast
my mother thought it was “too violent” for us kids…
Should of heard the argument we had over Star Trek!
Too violent??? These guys shoot about as well as storm troopers!
One of the reasons that I enjoy it is that it is written old-school,
where the stories are more about the characters than the action.
We’re talking about a woman that thought soap operas were real,
she was obsessed with them. Even went so far as to buy 3 VCRs
so she could edit out the commercials and study the events un-
interrupted… When I was recovering from my car accident it was
hell, but it did help keep me motivated to get back on my feet and
out!
I remember “Combat!”. It was on when I was in junior high and high school. LOL, my folks had no problem with
how “violent” the show was. Hell! Our games of “cowboys and indians” and play war were vastly more “violent”
than anything which could be shown on broadcast television. Sad about how Vic Morrow went. Did you notice
the number of episodes there were? 32 episodes per season! These days it’s down to 22 with cable and
syndicated shows down to 10. Thanks for the heads up, PC. I can stream youtube and watch it on either my tablet
or via my roku.
My mother was anti-gun so yeah. I was almost a teen before I could
get a cap gun. It was a replica of a WWII Luger I picked up at a flea
market and had to fix it. Funny thing was, me and my best friend were
playing in the cement company one weekend and a cop showed up
thinking it was a real gun fight with the echos lol!
Get out when the gittin’s good Larissa! She’s got a target on her back with
her looks anyway.
I was hoping we’d get back to The Catian’s Pride soon it was pretty heated.
I kinda doubt that security ship would try anything with Captain Ktre’rrt’s
ship standing by, but they do seem pretty intent on getting that ship!
I’ve found all four seasons of The Man From U.N.C.L..E. https://archive.org/details/the-man-from-uncle-s-1
(2-4 are at the bottom of the screen)
And they can be downloaded to watch later!
Now to find the movies…
Some details about coded messages.
As mentioned, more code works well and if you think
someone has gotten your database, you can easily
change it.
In Babylon 5 they had a signal hidden on a sub
channel that carried the ID of the sender. Not
100% secure, but secure enough for a day-to-day
basis. You would have to steal the ID and mirror
everything else to fake a message. Not very
practical in many cases.
There is also the possibility to send an uncoded
message where the a short message, like a
warning of a confirmation can be build into the
text or words. The good thing about this is that
you can come up with them even during a mission,
making it impossible to crack them. Also not saying
something or not giving the ‘all clear’ sign works
as well.
Though you could update the old book coding.
Several numbers indicating the page, line and
a word in that line. Both sides need the same
edition to use it.
In a digital library you could spread the message
over several books, movies and other media.
Mixing in with the words, pictures and even
parts of movies can be used.
The nice thing here is you can quickly change
the media used and even keep a special collection
on a detached data storage unit only used for
decoding.
I’d say the “gravcom” idea is great until someone else figures out the
grav drives etc… Which bring me back to the self-destruct idea for the
drives/control units. It would be very bad if the tech was to become
common knowledge at this time. It’s the basis for all of The Empire’s
military systems and defenses.
Even with encrypting / encoding the message itself, need to be wary of the time / source / destination.
Sending a message off schedule, or wildly different size, in reaction to something can reveal how
interested in that event. An old diplomatic pouch would be the same size box, sent every day, with rocks
as needed to a standard weight.
Especially hidden sites could not react to something with a flurry of messages. Deviations get noticed.
Instead of the daily order of 2 to 4 cases to refill the break room, order 5 or 1 to flag an event.
Sort of like Signals Intelligence did with the Japanese before the battle of Midway
with their fresh water message. The vital information was not in the Japanese
message, it was the fact that the message was sent.
There was a nice scene about that in the star studded 1976 blockbuster “Midway”. Hal Holbrook played
the chief codebreaker at Pearl Harbor. Good flick. Way better than the 2019 remake.
Chardis and the Pteran queen. Looks to be interesting. Quick reminder, gravcom
may be untappable but it would still be speed-of-light.
True. The data transmission rate is also very slow, sort of like ULF radio.
You were commo, Bill. Give me a lesson on how ULF communication works, will you?
If they have a highly secure but very slow communications channel,
they might consider combining it with a less secure channel in roughly
the following way:
Scramble the data to be transmitted by using quick and randomly changing
ciphers and transfer only the keys for deciphering over the highly secured
low bandwidth channel.
The actual data is transferred over the open medium, but useless without the
keys.
Of course there’s the risk that your encryption isn’t as good as you think, or that
the eavesdroppers could record the open transfer and crack it over the next few
weeks or decades (on the other hand: the later might not be an issue since the
data could be outdated by the time it’s eventually cracked).
Of course this would not work, anyway if you’re trying to hide the fact that your
communicating at all.
Basically, the information sent over a given carrier wave can be no more than one half of the frequency
of the carrier wave itself with the actual info itself being less than half that. The ULF band would fall
between 300 – 3,000 hertz (cycles per second) so for reliable comm you could have a total usable channel
bandwidth (how wide the information channel would need to be) only 150 hertz and in practice the signal
could be no more than 75 htz. For digital data that would only be a few bits per second thus only a
couple of characters per second.
But that would be predicated on using a carrier wave. I envision a grav based comm system as
working similar to the old fashioned sound powered paper cup (or tin can) and string “telephone”
game. The sound is carried down the taught string. No need to modulate a carrier wave when you
can just “jiggle the string”. If you focused the grav into a tight beam it would be totally secure
similar to a tightly focused laser beam. No need for encryption (which can always be broken) if the
channel itself is immune to eavesdropping. Actually, I don’t see why you don’t just use a tight
beam laser for your comm. It would be easier. But if you did communicate using a carrier in the
ULF band comm would be ungodly slow compared to simply modulating the grav beam directly.
Beautiful. That’s exactly what I wanted to know.
So… The most likely used words and phrases for a specific mission would
be coded as numbers, say, from 27-99? With necessary words spelled out
in numbers 1-26?
Oops, binary. 00001-11111?
In that scenero, even something like morse code would work.
Dots and pulses digital rather than analog.
If you only need a few bits of information (6 in your example) and have more than a
fraction of a second to transmit them, you could use virtually anything to do it.
Even transmitting more code via turning off and on the engines
You might not even feel the need to bother with encryption or using stealth
channels.
For example, the most likely message for her to send would probably something
a long the line “we’re in position and ready”. You could encode that into just one
short “pring” (like the letter E in morse code).
funny you should say that…
back in 2016 (Russia) they figured out a way to send data (in binary)
from source, to 2 different satellites, an back to source.. using a
“gravity induced communication wave” AND they extrapolate that with
enough power,, they could send it at the speed of light…
which would be a bit faster than carrier wave…
There’s several different definitions of “fast” you could apply here.
When we usually talk about something traveling fast it’s in terms of actual speed.
As in m/s or mph.
Information transfer has to consider bandwidth (measured for example in kBit/s or
GBit/s), which is the amount of data you can put through the medium over a given
amount of time.
And then there’s latency (or somewhat equivalent round-trip-time) – how long does
the signal take from sender to receiver (or maybe even back again).
When you have massive amounts of data you might still find that the all-in-all fastest way
to transfer them is to store them on physical media and then send these via conventional
transportation. (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sneakernet)
The last method is both slow in terms of speed of the physical medium and (consequentially)
latency – but could still be the fasted way in terms of bandwidth.
I can’t find an article about the “gravity induced communication wave” right now, but by the sound
of it, it should be fast in terms traveling speed, probably not quite that fast in terms of latency (since
changing gravity should imply moving around massive objects of some kind? and detection probably
takes more processing time then using a simple photocell) and I’m pretty sure it will be slow in terms
of bandwidth (again because of the implied movement of massive objects):
In the setting of this site the bandwidth question boils down to:
“How fast can you change (aka modulate) the pull of your grav guns/engines and how good are the
detectors you use in picking up these changes?”
For example: maybe a common household scales would be usable as a detector, but I don’t think it
would be able give you more than a few Bit/s (or even less. I think measuring cycle is some 2-5s
between measuring?)
https://www.universetoday.com/140305/it-could-be-possible-to-transfer-data-through-gravitational-waves/
this page gives the general how to, and that it was done…
the specifics are in the ‘intellectual properties'(IP),.
and cannot go into (discuss) at this time..
Another thing about using ULF (or the even lower SLF 30 – 300 hz) is that the electromagnetic radiation
has no sky wave. It propagates through the earth. That’s why it is used by armed forces for emergency
communication. Nuclear weapons detonating in the atmosphere would generate a huge amount of
persistent electromagnetic noise. ULF and below would barely affected. Plus extreme longwave radiation
propagates through sea water very well. The problem is that practical transmitters require ungodly long
antennas (receivers don’t need much antenna for a strong enough signal). The Looking Glass emergency
airborne command post had a SLF transmitter with an antenna FIVE MILES LONG! They would literally
reel out a 5 mile (8 kilometer) long antenna that would hang out the ass end of the aircraft. If there was a
problem with the equipment to reel it back in there was a guillotine type mechanism to separate the
antenna from the aircraft. And, yes, that mechanism did fail a time or two (it was maintained by G.I.s after all).
Supposedly, landing the aircraft with miles of wire hanging out its ass was a might tricky. But SLF was just
about the only way to contact a submarine cruising deep. The actual message would just be a couple of
characters that decoded to a pre-arranged instruction like go to perescope depth for a satcom message. I
never worked on that equipment but guys in my Air Force Specialty did. It was supposedly some
“interesting” equipment.
You all remember the blue-on-blue Catian, Tabitha, right? Well, she was
based on a real-life young lady, like Jochi is. And she dyed her hair blue.
She worked at a store that I frequent, but she disappeared. No one there
would tell me anything, I guess I was giving off creepy old man vibes
or something.
Gave me the sads.
Anyway, the last time I was there, the store manager told me that she’d quit
when she graduated from High School and is now going to college. Good for her!
She really is an admirable young lady. And yes, she’s tall.
Yes I do she bonded with spirit when Kathy was married.
I hope we see her again sometime I liked her character.
I just talk like a kind knowing dad to the younger set, I
had a job at a Wal-mart as a greeter. Most of them liked
me, especially the gals at check-out in the garden center.
I made dad jokes and told stories what I did before coming
there it was fun and fairly easy money. Only bad thing was
this one young man seemed to think I was horning in on
his love-life, even though he was a “playah” and the girls
knew it. I Just said “look, I’m 50+, happily married, that
makes me safe. Deal with it!” a-hole keyed my car later
that day…
The Terran version has an account here,
I wish she would comment.
You all would like her.
I’m sure we would! And having someone from the
younger set would give us elder types insight we
lack heh.
Been watching the old “Combat” TV series here:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-Y39YOpvWRDifzF9oe7gBcxM-ADI0cNX
Full hour-long episodes, every one of five seasons. Even today, it’s pretty good.
I vaguely remember that show when it was broadcast
my mother thought it was “too violent” for us kids…
Should of heard the argument we had over Star Trek!
Too violent??? These guys shoot about as well as storm troopers!
One of the reasons that I enjoy it is that it is written old-school,
where the stories are more about the characters than the action.
We’re talking about a woman that thought soap operas were real,
she was obsessed with them. Even went so far as to buy 3 VCRs
so she could edit out the commercials and study the events un-
interrupted… When I was recovering from my car accident it was
hell, but it did help keep me motivated to get back on my feet and
out!
too violent? .. yes!! remember “They” rewrote cartoons so as
no one dies.. IE: jumping out of Exploding helicopter AFTER
it was hit with a missile.
I remember “Combat!”. It was on when I was in junior high and high school. LOL, my folks had no problem with
how “violent” the show was. Hell! Our games of “cowboys and indians” and play war were vastly more “violent”
than anything which could be shown on broadcast television. Sad about how Vic Morrow went. Did you notice
the number of episodes there were? 32 episodes per season! These days it’s down to 22 with cable and
syndicated shows down to 10. Thanks for the heads up, PC. I can stream youtube and watch it on either my tablet
or via my roku.
My mother was anti-gun so yeah. I was almost a teen before I could
get a cap gun. It was a replica of a WWII Luger I picked up at a flea
market and had to fix it. Funny thing was, me and my best friend were
playing in the cement company one weekend and a cop showed up
thinking it was a real gun fight with the echos lol!
Get out when the gittin’s good Larissa! She’s got a target on her back with
her looks anyway.
I was hoping we’d get back to The Catian’s Pride soon it was pretty heated.
I kinda doubt that security ship would try anything with Captain Ktre’rrt’s
ship standing by, but they do seem pretty intent on getting that ship!
I’ve found all four seasons of The Man From U.N.C.L..E.
https://archive.org/details/the-man-from-uncle-s-1
(2-4 are at the bottom of the screen)
And they can be downloaded to watch later!
Now to find the movies…
Oh wow way-back machine is in full activation! Heh, that takes me
back too. I setup Hulu for my father it has a lot of the older shows
on it.
Some details about coded messages.
As mentioned, more code works well and if you think
someone has gotten your database, you can easily
change it.
In Babylon 5 they had a signal hidden on a sub
channel that carried the ID of the sender. Not
100% secure, but secure enough for a day-to-day
basis. You would have to steal the ID and mirror
everything else to fake a message. Not very
practical in many cases.
There is also the possibility to send an uncoded
message where the a short message, like a
warning of a confirmation can be build into the
text or words. The good thing about this is that
you can come up with them even during a mission,
making it impossible to crack them. Also not saying
something or not giving the ‘all clear’ sign works
as well.
Though you could update the old book coding.
Several numbers indicating the page, line and
a word in that line. Both sides need the same
edition to use it.
In a digital library you could spread the message
over several books, movies and other media.
Mixing in with the words, pictures and even
parts of movies can be used.
The nice thing here is you can quickly change
the media used and even keep a special collection
on a detached data storage unit only used for
decoding.
I’d say the “gravcom” idea is great until someone else figures out the
grav drives etc… Which bring me back to the self-destruct idea for the
drives/control units. It would be very bad if the tech was to become
common knowledge at this time. It’s the basis for all of The Empire’s
military systems and defenses.
Even with encrypting / encoding the message itself, need to be wary of the time / source / destination.
Sending a message off schedule, or wildly different size, in reaction to something can reveal how
interested in that event. An old diplomatic pouch would be the same size box, sent every day, with rocks
as needed to a standard weight.
Especially hidden sites could not react to something with a flurry of messages. Deviations get noticed.
Instead of the daily order of 2 to 4 cases to refill the break room, order 5 or 1 to flag an event.
Sort of like Signals Intelligence did with the Japanese before the battle of Midway
with their fresh water message. The vital information was not in the Japanese
message, it was the fact that the message was sent.
There was a nice scene about that in the star studded 1976 blockbuster “Midway”. Hal Holbrook played
the chief codebreaker at Pearl Harbor. Good flick. Way better than the 2019 remake.
Full movie “Midway”
https://ievenn.com/midway-1976-english/2410167/